The End of Warhammer Fantasy

Herr Arnulfe
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The End of Warhammer Fantasy

Postby Herr Arnulfe » Sat Aug 22, 2015 4:46 pm

A lot has happened to the Warhammer setting since the LF Inner Sanctum went down in Sept. 2014. How does the End Times campaign affect fan material? Do you consider the End Times canon for WFRP, or at least parts of it? Where does the default WFRP timeline exist in your imagination? Should fan projects attempt to reach some consensus of what constitutes canon for WFRP purposes? Do we need to start adding a foreword to every fan project indicating whether it's v1 era, pre/post SoC, +/- End Times, timeline-neutral, etc.?

Rangdo
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Re: The End of Warhammer Fantasy

Postby Rangdo » Sun Aug 23, 2015 1:13 pm

I think we should go the L5R4e route and make things timeline-neutral. We should certainly ignore the End Times.

One other option, inspired by a PbP game that's currently running on rpg.net, would be to have a fan-created New Golden Age of the Empire, after the Storm of Chaos. Basically an alternative continuity, where society is rebuilding and expanding after Chaos has been driven back.
I used to be Ovid.

Herr Arnulfe
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Re: The End of Warhammer Fantasy

Postby Herr Arnulfe » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:02 am

Hmm, designing a post-SoC Golden Age setting sounds interesting and would be quite an ambitious fan project in itself.

Although I haven't read much of the End Times material, my impression is that it reveals most of the setting's Sacred Mysteries. e.g. How will players' perception of Dark Elves and High Elves be affected, knowing that Malekith is the true Phoenix King?

Timeline-neutral could work for fan projects that aren't too heavy on metaplot.

The Old King
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Re: The End of Warhammer Fantasy

Postby The Old King » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:08 am

Personally I always make my campaigns timeline neutral. But then again, my group of players are not deeply embedded in the Warhammer world so they basically don't know anything about the different timeline events unless I enlighten them. I simply include whatever I feel like is a fitting back drop to the campaign. But that is just what works for this group, how well that works for other GM's I don't know.

But from the perspective of developing fan material I think it would be far better/easier to make it timeline neutral and not having to worry about adapting to timeline changes. Especially given the timespan for developing material.

However, it could perhaps be a good idea to develop/adapt the warhammer timeline to WFRP for purposes of reference and/or as an in-depth guide for those GM's who whish the detailed background and use it for metaplots etc. Or just players a bit more interested in the greater WFRP perspective than mine :)

Herr Arnulfe
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Re: The End of Warhammer Fantasy

Postby Herr Arnulfe » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:51 am

A project like the TTT Expansions could never work in a timeline-neutral setting, they were too deeply rooted in the SoC.

DotF is fairly timeline-neutral, although the revelation about Lileath and the Lady of the Lake in The End Times changes things somewhat.

A city gazetteer project could theoretically be timeline-neutral if it just focused on local politics and ignored the big picture. e.g. Averheim background wasn't too affected by either SoC or End Times IIRC (until it blew up along with everything else).

ragnar63
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Re: The End of Warhammer Fantasy

Postby ragnar63 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:20 am

This is an interesting question which probably does need dealing with to some extent. Essentially we have two canon versions of Archaeons chaos invasion of 2522. WFRP 2 is based on the earlier one, the Storm of Chaos, but the End Times does have a lot of great revelations, although its ending precludes using End Times canon exclusively. I would propose the following:

1. We continue with the Storm of Chaos canon but incorporate the revelations from the End Times where possible. That would mean for instance, including the idea that Malekith is in fact the true Phoenix King in the High Elf supplement, with Teclis engineering his take up of the Phoenix Throne and how that could happen and the possible results.

2. The post SOC golden age idea is a good one, but as it is Warhammer there should be some flies in the ointment. Elven civil war over Malekith trying to take the Phoenix Crown and perhaps the possibility of the return of Nagash making an Undead invasion from the south a distinct possibility.

3. Investigate what the Old World would have looked like had the End Times happened as canon except for Archaeon failing to open the Third Warp Gate. This would give guidelines for anybody who wanted to write stuff for a post End Times era. This would probably involve an open post End Times thread where ideas could be posted and debated. A good idea of the feel would be Traveller The New Era if anybody remembers that version of the Traveller sci fi game.

Herr Arnulfe
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Re: The End of Warhammer Fantasy

Postby Herr Arnulfe » Wed Aug 26, 2015 9:39 am

What about these formats:

1. Post-SoC/End Times Fusion: 1-page summary that could be added to any fan supplement. Succinct re-cap of major revelations from ET, but otherwise the setting exists as described in Sigmar's Heirs. This could be useful as quick-reference both for GMs and fan contributors alike.
2. Golden Age alternative future: Community fan pdf, could be anywhere from 20-200 pages, depending on desired scope and contributions.
3. Post End Times alternative future: As #2, but dystopian.

It might also be worth producing a 1-pager summary for v1-era projects ("The Complacent Empire"). I suspect many people prefer that period. Perhaps another 1-pager summary for v3-era projects ("Eve of Destruction") in case a fan project wanted to explore the SoC/End Times apocalypse.

Thanks goodness we have Jackdays' living timeline, this could become confusing. :)

Herr Arnulfe
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Re: The End of Warhammer Fantasy

Postby Herr Arnulfe » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:31 am

Also, one of my personal "golden rules" when writing about the Sacred Mysteries of Warhammer is to introduce at least one new mystery for each one revealed. The End Times campaign didn't seem to care much about preserving mysteries, because it blew up the world afterwards. Might be worth looking at each of the Big Questions answered by the End Times, and identifying some new compelling questions that were raised.

Rangdo
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Re: The End of Warhammer Fantasy

Postby Rangdo » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:38 pm

I was away from WFRP for a long time, so my knowledge of the metaplot is sketchy, to say the least. So I naturally favour a v.1, effectively timeline-neutral setting, with any mysteries entirely for the GM to determine. (I really fucking hate metaplot - I'm playing my game, damn it! :evil: )

The 'Golden Age' idea is more an 'Age of Exploration' concept - the Old World as expansionist and dynamic, but with all the violence and murkiness still there.
I used to be Ovid.

Herr Arnulfe
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Re: The End of Warhammer Fantasy

Postby Herr Arnulfe » Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:50 pm

Ovid wrote:I was away from WFRP for a long time, so my knowledge of the metaplot is sketchy, to say the least. So I naturally favour a v.1, effectively timeline-neutral setting, with any mysteries entirely for the GM to determine. (I really fucking hate metaplot - I'm playing my game, damn it! :evil: )

The v1 period might not have as much metaplot because there wasn't the same WFB presence, but I wouldn't call it timeline-neutral exactly. The "Complacent Empire" is a fairly unique period IMO, which would only come around every couple hundred years when the last Chaos Incursion was fading into history books. To a v1 vet, the Complacent Empire probably feels timeline-neutral, but I still think it could benefit from a 1-page write-up for players who started with v2 or v3.

OTOH, it's possible that the Empire slips into complacency fairly quickly after Chaos Incursions. One of my ideas for post-SoC was the "Overconfident Empire", which drops its guard soon after the Incursion or becomes focused on barbarians from the north while overlooking enemies within. In that case, I suppose the v1-era could have lasted 100 years (or more) in the timeline.


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